Lone Tree, CO Even before the Denver Broncos signed Peyton Manning, this great debate has raged. In fact, it has on a few occasions gotten a little silly. But in his latest attempt to further support his crush on Tom Brady, Simp has taken it a little too far. See, this debate is nowhere close to declaring an obvious choice as Mr. Simp did so declare in his recent article.
These two future Hall of Famers are very evenly matched and if anyone has a slight edge, it would be Peyton. Obvious choices are statements like MJ over Kobe. Dream Teams and all. But Manning and Brady comparisons are too close to declare. They are both really good quarterbacks. A friend of mine recently said it like this. If you were to grade the two quarterback’s careers they both would get an A+. But one has a 97% and the other has a 98%. So here are my 7 reason why Brady is not the obvious choice and that Manning does have the edge.
7 – The Missing Year – The year Brady was hurt the Patriots went 11-5. The year the Colts went without Peyton, 2-14. This stat speaks for itself. The Patriots would do just fine with anyone at QB. I bet even Painter could get ten wins in the Patriots system.
6 – Super Bowls are important, but not that important !!! – Championships have a skewed and subjective influence on a quarterback’s career. We need only look at Dan Marino, Joe Montana, and Terry Bradshaw to contrast the effects of championship wins on a QB’s career. Had he won a Super Bowl, Marino, with his domination of the record books during his time, would very easily be considered top five all time. Instead, he is considered one of the best of all time, but he didn’t win a ring! Therefore, Danny is not in the top 5.
Then there’s Bradshaw and Montana. Both have 4 rings, both are undefeated in the Super Bowl, both directed dynasties in their respective eras, and both were voted league MVP during their careers. And yet Montana is often regarded as one of the top three, if not the best, QB of all time. And Bradshaw isn’t even in the conversation. Bradshaw gets marked down because of his stats and the steel curtain. But didn’t Joe have the west coast and arguably the best coach of all time? And it’s not like Joe’s stats are spectacular. He is 11th or 12th in the major career passing stats.
So why the discrepancy? Marino is second all time in almost every major passing category but gets marked down for not having a ring. And Bradshaw gets marked down for not having the stats, yet he is on the short list (2) of QB’s with 4 rings. One would speculate it’s because Super Bowls are just part of the equation and that most weigh a players non playoff accomplishments as well. I personally believe that one ring is necessary to be in the club because the first ring carries the most weight. The fact that Brady has two more rings than Peyton gives him an edge, but just slight edge. As we can see with Bradshaw, more championship wins do not always translate into the great debate.
5 – Peyton is the Offensive Coordinator – Brady has become a master of the Patriots system. Whereas Peyton is the system.
4 – Peyton is 2nd all time in game winning drives – Growing up watching Mr. Elway bring the Broncos back from the brink has made me really appreciate this stat. And the best come back I’ve ever personally seen was a Colts comeback against the Bucks on Monday Night Football. With around 5:00 minutes left in the 4th Peyton brought the Colts back from 21 points down. They won the game in OT. Peyton is tied for second with Elway at 46 GWD. Marino has 51. If you want to see, this stat is available on the pro-football-reference website.
3 – Peyton Manning is 3rd all time in passing yardage, TD’s, and completions - Brady will be 35 at the beginning of the 2012 season and is one year younger that Peyton. Yet Peyton has 14,849 yards more passing, 99 more TD passes, and 1285 more completions. Peyton needs just 21 more touchdowns and 285 more completions to pass Marino for 2nd all time in those categories.
2 – Peyton Manning is 2nd all time career yards passing per game – With 263.4 yards per game, Peyton is second to Brees by one yard. Brady ranks 6th with 248 YPG. In addition to that, Peyton only has two seasons where he passed for less that 4000 yards. Brady has 6 seasons with less than 4000 yards passing.
1 – Peyton Manning has 4 MVP awards – Peyton is the ONLY four time NFL Most Valuable Player. Let me say it again. The ONLY four time MVP. The short list of guys with three… Jim Brown, Johnny Unitas, and Brett Favre.
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J Simp
October 19, 2012 at 8:59 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headline, you are amazingly inconsistent with what you believe is important. So you want to look at QB rating in this situation, as you just referenced it. However, when you discuss Tony Romo (who you do not like), you dismiss QB rating (he is top 5 all-time). You cannot pick and choose when and where you want to bring up certain stats, then dismiss them when they don’t support “your guy”.
Your assessment that Manning making the playoffs in 11 of 13 seasons is not what I was talking about as far as a playoff resume. Playoff resume is what is done IN the playoffs. You keep dodging the topic and the issue at hand. If you could, explain his losing record as a playoff QB. Please don’t just say he had average teams and that the Colts were lucky to have even made the playoffs……LAME……His teams had several high quality players, like future hall of famer Marvin Harrison, multi-time Pro Bowler Edgerrin James, multi-time Pro Bowler Reggie Wayne, multi-time Pro Bowler Jeff Saturday, one-time Pro Bowler and one of the best tight ends for years in Dallas Clark, etc…..and on defense, he had Pro Bowler Bob Sanders, multi-time Pro Bowler Dwight Freeney, and multi-time Pro Bowler Robert Mathis. So don’t tell me those Colts teams had no help from the defense. This is a Colts team that lost 4 times in the playoffs AT HOME, AS A FAVORED TEAM. Can you please address EACH pertinent topic brought up here please, and stop avoiding things that you keep trying to sweep under the rug? And most importantly, stay consistent…..otherwise, you just sound like a foolish, biased goof.
Headline
October 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
The key word in your first sentence is “TEAM” !
Your second statement is way off.. Manning has been a lot more consistent QB over his career!!!!
Only 3 of Mannings 13 seasons have a passer rating under 90.
4 of his 10 full seasons are under 90 for Brady.
Manning only has 2 seasons out of 13 under 4000 yards passing. And one of them is his rookie year!
6 of Brady’s 10 seasons are under 4000 yards passing. Including all three seasons the Pats won the Super Bowl! Hmm, maybe Brady had a better TEAM around him the years he won the Super Bowl???
And for a Manning fan, the fact that Manning got some of those teams to the playoffs in the first place is pretty amazing. Only two of Manning’s 13 seasons didn’t end up with a playoff appearance. That is a pretty good playoff resume!
J Simp
October 18, 2012 at 1:45 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Tom Brady has less 4th quarter comebacks because he and his team are rarely behind, and I don’t remember any times when he was behind by 24. He is simply a more consistent QB as well. No crazy comebacks necessary when you are typically ahead……I just simply don’t see how anyone can dog Brady when he has been extremely successful in the regular season, as well as just as much success in the playoffs. Peyton can’t say that. For all of the Peyton fans out there, why is a 9-10 playoff record ok? 4 of those losses at home as a favorite as well. Excuses, excuses…..for once, I would love to hear a Manning fan be objective and admit that his playoff resume leaves a lot to be desired. Are there any unbiased Peyton fans out there? Be real, people, and be fair when asssessing his career and stop sidestepping the poor playoff history.
Headline
October 18, 2012 at 11:58 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Thank you Sean.. That’s why I think it’s a toss up right now. All of Tom Brady’s impressive stats have come after the Super Bowl wins. Since then it’s been too much Brady to Welker and not enough team play. Team play wins Super Bowls for sure.
With that said, look what is starting to happen in Denver. Still have a long way to go but Peyton at this point looks far from washed up. Monday night’s game just added to his legend. That type of come back is what transcends the test of time. But Super Bowl wins do as well.
sean
October 18, 2012 at 6:14 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Defense. Isn’t this what wins playoff games and Super Bowls? Look at the rosters of all SB winning teams. Which winning SB team has the worst defense? The Colts. Peyton carried the team. Seymour Woolfork Harrison Bruschi Law. The Colts have Freeney and anyone? Anyone? That’s all that needs to be said. Since New England’s defense went south, how many Super Bowls has Brady won? Zero.
Andre
October 6, 2012 at 6:28 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headline, I appreciate the comment. I have emailed you back letting you know it would be ab honor to be on your site. Let me know what I can do.
Headline
October 5, 2012 at 10:24 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Montana is the first QB to really run the type of spread offenses that are run today. That combined with his undefeated Super Bowl record are the main reasons why. With that said, I do believe that Brady, Manning, or both will be ranked higher as time goes on. You simply cannot ignore the huge accomplishments of either QB.
On another note, I’m the webmaster of the site. I tried to send you an email last night. If you didn’t get it, try contacting me through the contact us tab. Me and Simp are impressed with your writing and comments and wanted to talk to you if possible?
Andre
October 4, 2012 at 1:27 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headliner, in all sincerity, this was fun (one of my favorite topics along with Russel versus Wilt, Emmitt vs. Barry Sanders, Jordan versus Kobe).
Thanks for providing the top player list. I have seen it previously and like most lists some things make me shake my head, but I have to accept that they are what they are. If your argument is that Manning is better than Brady just because he is, I am okay with it. In many ways I think Bo Jackson and Earl Campbell may have been the best running backs I have ever seen, I just can’t support that as a fact. Many fans from the past say Gale Sayers was the 2nd best back behind Jim Brown, I don’t see support for it.
Enjoyed it. If we ever renew this chat, give me your thoughts on why Joe Monatana is ranked ahead of Manning on this list you provided.
Headline
October 4, 2012 at 11:38 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Here is how I see it and I’m done!
Now keep in mind that our poll has been on the Patriots side of Yardbarker and Fox the majority of the time. Lots and lots and lots of Patriots fans voted on that poll. So…
Hypothetical National Poll – Who is better? Brady or Manning?
44% Tom Brady
43% Peyton Manning
10% Undecided
Poll has margin margin of error of +/- 3.5%
I’m in the 10% of undecided… Not going to change my mind on that. I’m open to see how their career’s play out. Right now, flip a coin.
One LAST thought before both of you go and say Brady would get 80% of the vote. The NFL network recently rated Peyton Manning in the TOP TEN of ALL TIME! This was before one more Super Bowl loss for Manning and one more loss for Brady.
1. Jerry Rice
2. Jim Brown
3. Lawrence Taylor
4. Joe Montana
5. Walter Payton
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Reggie White
8. Peyton Manning
9. Don Hutson
10. Dick Butkus.
Do either of you see Tom Brady on this list??? Brady was ranked 22nd or something like that!
I’m out
Headline
October 4, 2012 at 11:08 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Opps…
Scor Scor Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Rush Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece
Rk Week Day Date Tm Opp Tm Opp Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate Att Yds Lng Y/A TD Rec Yds Lng Y/R TD
Playoffs
1 Division Sat Jan 16 2010 box W IND BAL 20 3 30 44 246 2 1 20 5.6 68.2 87.9 2 -2 -1 -1.0 0
2 ConfChamp Sun Jan 24 2010 box W IND NYJ 30 17 26 39 377 3 0 46 9.7 66.7 123.6 1 0 0 0.0 0
3 SuperBowl Sun Feb 7 2010 box L IND N NOR 17 31 31 45 333 1 1 40 7.4 68.9 88.5
4 WildCard Sat Jan 3 2009 box L IND* SDG 17 23 25 42 310 1 0 72 7.4 59.5 90.4 1 -1 -1 -1.0 0
5 Division Sun Jan 13 2008 box L IND* SDG 24 28 33 48 402 3 2 55 8.4 68.8 97.7 1 -6 -6 -6.0 0
6 WildCard Sat Jan 6 2007 box W IND* KAN 23 8 30 38 268 1 3 42 7.1 78.9 71.9 2 -2 -1 -1.0 0
7 Division Sat Jan 13 2007 box W IND* BAL 15 6 15 30 170 0 2 27 5.7 50.0 39.6 3 5 7 1.7 0
8 ConfChamp Sun Jan 21 2007 box W IND* NWE 38 34 27 47 349 1 1 52 7.4 57.4 79.1 2 0 1 0.0 1
9 SuperBowl Sun Feb 4 2007 box W IND* N CHI 29 17 25 38 247 1 1 53 6.5 65.8 81.8 1 0 0 0.0 0
10 Division Sun Jan 15 2006 box L IND* PIT 18 21 22 38 290 1 0 50 7.6 57.9 90.9
11 WildCard Sun Jan 9 2005 box W IND* DEN 49 24 27 33 458 4 1 49 13.9 81.8 145.7 1 1 1 1.0 1
12 Division Sun Jan 16 2005 box L IND* NWE 3 20 27 42 238 0 1 18 5.7 64.3 69.3 1 7 7 7.0 0
13 WildCard Sun Jan 4 2004 box W IND* DEN 41 10 22 26 377 5 0 87 14.5 84.6 158.3 1 0 0 0.0 0
14 Division Sun Jan 11 2004 box W IND* KAN 38 31 22 30 304 3 0 38 10.1 73.3 138.7 1 -1 -1 -1.0 0
15 ConfChamp Sun Jan 18 2004 box L IND* NWE 14 24 23 47 237 1 4 32 5.0 48.9 35.5 2 4 3 2.0 0
16 WildCard Sat Jan 4 2003 box L IND* NYJ 0 41 14 31 137 0 2 17 4.4 45.2 31.2 1 2 2 2.0 0
17 WildCard Sat Dec 30 2000 box L IND* MIA 17 23 17 32 194 1 0 30 6.1 53.1 82.0 1 -2 -2 -2.0 0
18 Division Sun Jan 16 2000 box L IND* TEN 16 19 19 42 227 0 0 33 5.4 45.2 62.3 2 22 15 11.0 1
18 games 435 692 5164 28 19 7.5 62.9 87.6 23 27 15 1.2 3
CSV
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/
Andre
October 4, 2012 at 10:34 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
One last little stat, I went back and looked at your original rebuttal. One of the positions you take is that Peyton is second all time (regular season) as far as game winning drives. He has 47 game winning drives out of 212 starts or about 22% of his starts. Good stat. What you didn’t mention is that in the playoffs he has one game winning drive. 1!!!! That is roughly 5% of his 19 playoff starts This despite being under .500 in the playoffs. The playoffs would have been a good place to show his clutch gene.
Brady quantitatively is 6th on the all time regular season game winning drive chart having 36 out of his 162 starts. This equates to the exact same 22% of his starts as Peyton. So on this cherished regular season record statistically Brady and Manning are the same.
Here is the difference, Brady has 6 game winning drives in the playoffs, I believe 3 are in the Super Bowl and woudl occurred in his first 4 years. 6 game winning drives!!!! As a percentage of his 22 playoff starts that is 27% of the time he has brought his team on a game winning drive in the playoffs. Notice Brady’s great regular season performance does not change in the playoffs (22% vs 27%). Again, I ask how can being better in virtually every thing make you even or worse.
I am with J Simp this isn’t really close.
J Simp
October 4, 2012 at 9:07 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Nice work, Andre….great stats, and reference to Nash as well. It’s obvious Brady has the more impressive resume from top to bottom. Might as well let the less informed fans try and continually mount their lame arguments.These are football fans who just don’t like Brady and wish he wasn’t as great as he has been and still is. For most non-Brady fans, it’s a personal thing. He is perceived as a pretty boy, and has a “perfect” life, so he gets plenty of backlash because of this. Unfortunately, this clouds peoples so-called objective opinions, and they can’t argue this Brady-Manning thing with pure objectivity. It’s unfortunate, because the career numbers, when ALL things are considered, favor Tom in an overwhelming way.
Andre
October 4, 2012 at 7:27 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Stats:
The number I am referring to is quarterback rating. Why quarterback rating is so important is because it values efficiency and effectiveness. Again, if we want to use quantitative numbers, I am fine with that but that means Marino is 21,000 yards better than Montana. Montana averaged roughly 3,000 yards passing per season. So by your calculation Marino was 7 years better than Montana. Also Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Bledsoe, and Fouts were much better than Montana.
I don’t know many people who thought Marino was better at all, and I think you would be laughed at of the room if you argued that Marino was much better (By the way, Montana had the greatest receiver of all time, by far, on his team and arguably the greatest offensive mind over the last 50 years coaching his team).
Quarterback rating as you stated takes into account td%, int%, yards per completion, completion%, etc to say who is better. Before we argue how close, we have to accept the quarterback rating does say that Brady was better.
In regards to how close, your argument seems to be that the 1.6 basis difference in rating between Brady and Manning is insignificant (96.5 vs 94.9). However there is only a 2 basis difference between Manning and Matt Schaub. On top of that the difference between Brady and Manning is getting larger and the difference between Schaub and Manning is getting smaller. Would you say that statistically there is no difference between Schaub and Manning? Would you be okay in saying if Brady has a 2 basis point difference between he and Manning that that is the tipping point and Brady because much better? My argument for Brady, in this case, is isn’t Peyton’s strength supposed to be he is a better passing QB, but Brady beats him at that.
Team:
I don’t think we have an effective argument for Peyton beating Brady at Brady’s strength:
A. Brady takes a 5-11 team to the Super Bowl victory his first year starting.
B. Brady wins 3 Super Bowls in 4 years (Only one other team does that)
C. Brady starts his playoff run at 10-1 (I believe best start ever for first 10 playoff games)
D. Brady has never had a losing record (Manning has 2 in his 1st and 4th season)
E. Brady has only undefeated 16 game season
F. Brady ties the record for most starting QB Super Bowl appearances
G. Brady ties the record for most playoff victories career (probably will break it this year)
H. Brady top 5 playoff winning percentage
I. Brady best regular season starting QB winning percentage in history
So I keep waiting for the strong argument that Manning is better, to me the strongest argument he has is 4 MVPs. I give you that. If you want to argue that in your mind until Brady achieves 4 MVPS then he will not be as good as Manning, okay. We can respectfully agree to disagree (Steve Nash has more MVPs than Shaq and Kobe, but 10 less rings). My argument would be Brady is the only two time regular season MVP and two time Super Bowl MVP (only year that he won the Super Bowl and didn’t win the Super Bowl MVP was when he broke the record for completions in a Super Bowl and took his team on the game winning drive to win the game (They gave the award to Branch).
So if your argument is that because Peyton has 4 MVPs to Brady’s two regular season MVPs that is the career equal to Brady having 2 championships, 3 more championship appearances, 100 basis point better regular season, a 300 basis point playoff record, a better effective qb rating, we would have to agree to disagree.
J Simp
October 3, 2012 at 5:53 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Peyton has been in 19 playoff games….9-10 record….get YOUUUURRRR facts straight……I hesitate to even trust whatever other numbers you have posted, since the number of playoff games you have for him is incorrect….come on, Headline……jeez……
Headline
October 3, 2012 at 3:19 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Well, what statistics are we talking about Andre? Their career stuff is very similar as you can see below. Manning has a higher completion %, yards per attempt, and yards per game. Brady has a better TD percentage, int ratio, and yards per completion. As for life long stats, Brady will not catch Manning in any of the major passing records. He will have to play 4 more years than Manning in order to even catch him.
Manning:Career
212 212 143-69-0 4781 7363 64.9 55990 407 5.5 201 2.7 86 7.6 7.5 11.7 264.1 94.9
Brady:Career
168 163 126-37-0 3498 5475 63.9 41206 307 5.6 116 2.1 99 7.5 7.7 11.8 245.3 96.5
Andre
October 3, 2012 at 3:05 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I think the argument that J Simp and I are making are cumulative argument and the basis of our questions hinges on where is Peyton better. I think a big brownie point for Manning is 4 MVPs. I can see you saying Brady has to have 4 MVPs to catch Manning. But I think I have listed 3 very viable arguments of why Manning is not Brady (better playoff, regular season, qb rating). Just like in Super Bowl wins 3 beats 1. On top of that I question if we are having this argument if Peyton has the rings and has a higher QB rating. By the way, i am not just a ring guy. I don’t think Troy Aikman was the best (and I shamefully say that I am Cowboy fan, but I don’t think Troy’s the best Cowboy quarterback), because the stats are not there.
Of the major points I have is when Brady was plugged in as a starter and won the Super Bowl his 1st year starting. This was a team that by no account should have been in or won the Super Bowl. There was nothing great in the head coaching resume, there was nothing in the team’s previous year’s performance that showed this team was on the brink, there was nothing in the beginning of the season that showed the team was on the verge. The only thing that changed was the QB. And to prove that it wasn’t a fluke, the guy did it 3 out of the first 4 years something I beleive only one other team has done. To me from that point on Manning would have had to do something to prove he is in Brady’s class, not the other way around. Don’t you think those are very strong points to show the value of a player. You make one change and the team goes from virtually last place to a dynasty? Can you explain how that happens and why Peyton didn’t make one game difference when he was inserted.
To further the argument what has happened since that point is that Brady’s stats have shown he is a better passer. I don’t understand why that is a coin flip. It is not a coin flip between Young and Montana or I guess I should ask that question is it a coin flip between Young and Montana (Young actually has a higher QB ratiing than Montana). In addition, since he has won 3 out of 4 Super Bowls and passed Manning in QB rating, Brady has had an undefeated team entering a Super Bowl and another Super Bowl team.
Now you asked if the Pats defense would have been better would they have won the Super Bowl last year. My answer is easily “no”. I couldn’t expect the defense to play better they only allowed 21 points. I think they would have had an easier road to the Super Bowl if the defense were better, but that could have only gotten them 3 more victories. What would have gotten them the Super Bowl would have been a connection to Welker, not having the safety, and not having the interception to Grownkoski. So I look at it that Brady playing better could have gotten them the win. I am critical of him because he is my guy and I know what he has done and can do. I am confident in his place in history because 16 out of 22 times he has done the right thing in the playoffs and about 75% of the time he has done it in the regular season. My problem with Manning is that he is lesser but that some how makes him better.
Andre
October 3, 2012 at 2:38 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headline I think you make good points but for me you should not only answer the obvious questions of why is Peyton’s regular season less than Brady’s and then why is his post season winning percentage much less than his regular seasons, but as importantly you should answer why Peyton is not a statisically better Qb than Brady.
A quick answer to the initial question is either Peyton’s regular season marks are inflated; ie his teams are really not that good or Peyton lets down in the playoffs. Either one is a knock on Peyton being better than Brady.
But let me request that you explain the QB rating. Because this is supposed to be Peyton’s strength.
Let me give a few numbers. Brady was drafted in 2000, from 2001 threw 2012 the Patriots drafted in the first round (DL, OL, DL. DL and TE, OL, RB, S, LB, CB. OL, LB and DE). Out of 13 picks 8 were defensive players, 3 were offensive linemen, a tight end and a running back. My point is they only picked 2 offensive skilled position players and only 5 offensive position players. Not one was a wide receiver. They didn’t draft to keep Brady’s numbers high.
Manning was drafted in 98, from 99 to 2010, the Colts drafted (keep in mind they already had a 1st round wide receiver pick in Marvin Harrison). (RB, LB, WR, DE, TE, CB, RB, WR, RB, DE). That is 6 skill position players out of 10 possible selections, two of which were wide receivers and a tight end from the time Manning was selected.
So shouldn’t Manning’s offenses have at least been better? Shouldn’t Manning’s quarterback rating have been higher with three #1 pick wide receivers?
Again even if you skipped the team performance, if Peyton were better, shouldn’t Peyton’s passing numbers be better by virtue of playing in a dome. Of the top 10 quarterbacks 7 play in either domes, or warm weather stadiums. The three that don’t are Rodgers, Brady, Rothleisberger. So location adds a few points to your Qb rating. Yet Manning still doesn’t beat Brady.
Before we tackle the complex issue of team performance (that is a tremendous strength for Brady). Can you answer why Manning is not a statistically better player than Brady despite skilled position draft picks, playing in a dome, and by the general thought that Peyton is a better passing QB?
Headline
October 3, 2012 at 2:16 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
No Simp, you’ve said over and over that he had better defenses. That’s not true. Teams win championships.
And do you think the Pats win the Super Bowl last year if they have a better defense? That’s probably why they lost.
Also, get your stats right Simp.. 9-10 in the playoffs would be 19 games. That’s kind of hard since Peyton has only played in 18 playoff games.
Both QB’s playoff stats below.
Passing: Rushing:
Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate Att Yds Lng Y/A TD Rec Yds Lng Y/R TD
Manning 18 games 435 692 5164 28 19 7.5 62.9 87.6 23 27 15 1.2 3
Brady 22 Games 499 793 5285 38 20 6.6 62.9 87.8 53 80 1.5 3
Andre, the gist of the argument is that you can flip a coin.. They are both really good QB’s and that playoff wins are about the whole package. Organization, coaching, offense, and defense. Passing and running games. Brady has been to more Super Bowls because he has had more of the whole package surrounding him.
Steelegrave
October 3, 2012 at 2:12 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
This season will prove a lot. I have always been slightly in the Brady camp. I always believed Belichick made Brady but then I took a look at Belichick’s career before Brady and that swayed me. Now Manning is finding success with a different team. Not sure Brady could do that. Maybe we’ll see sooner than later. Not sure they can keep Mallett on the bench very long.
I typically don’t like stats. Too many variables. Offensive lines are a variable. Defenses are a variable. When Brady won his rings they had one of the best defenses in the NFL. When he didn’t have that, no rings. Strength of schedule is a variable. The AFC South was better than the East for many years.
I don’t think Manning had markedly better players in his Colts career, he made them better players. What have they done without him?
Brady has a better arm. That’s undeniable. Currently they’re talking about Manning’s arm being weak from the time off but he never has had a distance arm.
Brady is much more mobile.
The things Manning does with the audible is amazing and has single-handedly won games for him. His understanding of defenses is second to none.
I support Headlines argument that it is not a forgone conclusion. They are both great QBs. I probably give a slight edge to Brady because I am a long-time fantasy football player and Brady is a better fantasy QB. But if Manning does anything with this Bronco team that will be telling. He has faced the 2 top ranked teams in the league this year and played them both tough. They are the best team in the AFC West, so they’ll be in the playoffs. Let’s see what they do there.
Now lets talk about Christian Ponder!
J Simp
October 3, 2012 at 1:52 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
So these minor defensive differences over the years is your reason as to why Peyton has lost 4 times at home in the playoffs, and has a losing record? Both the Colts and Patriots have had some years with good defenses and some years with not so good ones. To blame Manning’s playoff record on his defense is ridiculous, but expected from you. The Patriots got to the Super Bowl last year with the 31st ranked defense. Your argument may have some credence if Brady and Manning’s post-season resumes were close, but they are not. 16-6 versus 9-10. Your logic is mind-numbing, as is typically the case. Just admit that you LIKE Peyton more, and this is a personal grudge you have against Brady. It’s your heart making these arguments, not your head…….It just sounds lame and stupid for you to quote some other website about MINOR defensive differences over the years. Get a grip, “Headline”, I just wish you understood how ridiculous your arguments sound.
Andre
October 3, 2012 at 1:27 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
So what you are arguing is that the Colts would have been better off to not draft to making Peyton’s numbers great. They would have been better off making the team great. I agree.
Peyton would have adapted to not having 1st round receivers at his disposal. Peyton could have played more conservative offensively and not put his defense at risk with interceptions. I agree.
The Colts should have not paid a few guys (particularly offensive guys) all the money. They should have let some fo the high profile guys go and asked their quarterback to lead them when they reinvented themselves. I agree.
Peyton should have adapted the offense to fit the personnel to fit the situation and the offensive coordinator not the other way around. I agree.
The problem with that argument is that he would have been statistically further behind Brady in regards to quarterback rating and more in line with him as far as quantitative numbers. Based on historical measures, at best he would have been similar to Brady with championships.
So Peyton would have been Brady and then the Colts would have been similar to the Patriots. That is gist of the argument that Brady is better.
Headline
October 3, 2012 at 12:57 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Well here is one major reason Brady has a better playoff record. Team play is undeniable in the playoffs and having a good defense is important. Brady fans have pointed out on several occasions the Peyton Manning had better defenses… That is just not true. Just because there was one stand out like Dwight Freeney doesn’t mean the Colts had a better defense. Here are the defensive facts!!
This fact is pointed out by nonamesleft on footballnation.com
Brady has played with a better defense throughout his career.
Colts D in Manning’s career:
Average 15.54th in scoring D, 38.5% chance to be in top 10, 15.4% chance to be in top 5
Average 17.38th in yard D, 15.4% chance to be in top 10, 7.7% chance to be in top 5
Patriots D in Brady’s career:
Average 6.89th in scoring D, 77.8% chance to be in top 10, 55.6% chance to be in top 5
Average 15th in yard D, 44.4% chance to be in top 10, 11.1% chance to be in top 5
Source:
http://forums.footballnation.com
Andre and Simp ???
Andre
October 3, 2012 at 9:58 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
As an addendum to J Simp’s last comment. 7 times Peyton has been one and done. This has happened to Brady twice in his career. One of those years was following his injured season.
J Simp
October 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
“Headline”…..I wasn’t talking about one game here and there.You are trying to change the topic yet again. I have mainly been talking about the fact that Manning has lost 4 times at home in the playoffs. 4 times, not once. Those are 4 seasons where the Colts were favored and supposed to win, but didn’t. Your assinine comment about should he get ALL of the blame? Of course not, but he should get the lions share of it because he is the starting QB, and hasn’t come through for the most part in the post-season.What is your answer about why he has a 9-10 record all-time in the playoffs? Brady is 16-6. Why is this? As “Andre” has mentioned, the Colts have had better weapons on offense by far, so explain your theory as to why Manning has a losing record. Nice comments again, “Andre”, and all are valid points. “Headline” will twist things around and not really address the facts and topics at hand. It’s what he does.
Andre
October 3, 2012 at 8:36 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Excuse me for rambling below but I want to hit some of your big points.
The question of who will be remembered more is a fairly valid point. I think that is going to be decided by the end of their careers. If Brady ties the Super Bowl victory record or passes it and rides off into the sunset. I think he will be remembered more. If Peyton can eek out a Super Bowl victory and hang on to break some of the all time records, he might be remembered more. But, I don’t think who is remembered more is a proper evaluation of who is better. I think who is remembered more is a “pop star” argument and sort of irrelevant in regards to who is the best. Kim Kardashian may be the most known lady in America right not, but it doesn’t make her the best. The argument I am presenting is do the numbers lie and/or is the team achievement disconnected from the QB?
While I do think that Peyton is looked at as in the same class as Brady. I question whether the numbers and qualitative arguments support that evaluation. Put it this way, if Peyton led Brady 3 Superbowl victories to 1. If Peyton had a better passing rating and had just come off his 5th Super Bowl appearance. If Peyton in his first year had been inserted as a starter and won the Super Bowl (as Super Bowl MVP). If Peyton’s coach prior to him being inserted as starter would have had a .500 record, would we be having this debate?…….No it would be clear that Peyton would be the best.
The pop star argument comes in because Peyton was drafted number 1, was ordained to be the best, was allowed to go out and fail and continue to start, and became a great QB. To make this point, Peyton’s first year ( a 3-13 year) he was allowed to throw 28 interceptions and wasn’t benched (almost 2 interceptions a game). Brady has never ever approached that number in any year. Not even Romo has had as many as 20 interceptions in a year. On top of that Peyton has had years of 23, 19, 17, 16 and a couple of 15. Brady has never been higher than 14 ints, ever!!!! Almost by consensus, the number 1 way you lose a game is by turning the ball over.
Brady on the other hand was the guy who wasn’t supposed to be there, but when given the opportunity beats Peyton at everything. So he was picked 199th, not number 1. So he didn’t start, because the team had a Pro Bowl Qb. So he is reluctantly put in, but the team goes from averaging like 10 points a game in that season prior to him starting to averaging 24 for the year with him starting. So then he’s a game manager, but his first playoff game he throws the ball 52 times in the snow. 52 times!!!!! The game manager threw more passes in his first playoff game, in the snow, than Peyton has ever thrown in any playoff game. Oh by the way he won! Peyton losses his first 3 playoff games. He goes on to win 10 out of his first 11 playoff games! Peyton is 3-6 initially in the playoffs and we are still talking about who is better. The argument should have been over then, but the Peyton fans held on to the fact that he had the lead in quarterback rating and had bigger seasons. They give Brady an all pro receiver, decided to throw the ball and Brady and passes Manning him in all those stats and we still argue who is better. They then say it is the all pro receiver who caused the increase in Brady stats (I even believed that). They take the all pro receiver away and he arguably has as good or better season.
In regards to the playoff losses, I don’t blame the playoff losses on Peyton. I blame the offensive production in the playoffs on Peyton. In those first 6 losses, the Colts averaged 11 points (16, 17, 0, 14, 3, and 18). My question to you is why would you blame the defense, if an all star offense averages 11 points? I mean ownership had spent money to get great running backs, wide receivers, Peyton was rarely sacked.
The Peyton cover up. Peyton losses and we blame everybody else. Example, Peyton throws a pick six in the Super Bowl and we blame the receiver and actually end up trading a linemen.
Tom Brady losses (I can remember everyone of the 6 playoff losses). Last year against the Giants the pass to Welker , could have been caught, but Brady could have made it an easier catch (I blame Brady), the pass to Grownkoski that was intercepted should have never been thrown (he was 20-24 to that point and was killing the Giants on dink and dunk), the safety was a silly mistake. The interception against the Jets after going something like 300 straight passes (NFL record) without an interception (Brady fault). The Ravens game, with the 4 interceptions. The first Giant Super Bowl, Brady playing a bit rushed. The Colts game where the team was up 21-3 on the Colts, it shouldn’t have come down to it, but a critical 3rd down and short wasn’t converted in the 4th quarter ( I blame Brady). The Broncos game (Brady’s first playoff loss after 10 playoff appearances), the Patriots had been down all game long, they make a furious comeback and are about to tie the game, Brady throws a pick six that Champ Bailey runs back for a touchdown (Brady’s fault). I look at it that Brady had a chance to have 5 or 6 Super Bowls by now, but I don’t know if it would have mattered to the Peyton fans. My point to be great, you have to take criticism and you have to take pressure.
The question I ask is you were to evaluate a qb blindly, take Brady and Peyton out of it, how would you do it? Prior to their argument, the argument of who was best was between Staubach, Montana, and Unitas (roughly). By almost unanimous consensus Montana was best (In my mind even though I am a Brady fan, I still think this is true). What made Montana the best has nothing to do with the strength’s of Peyton and are very consistent with the strength’s of Brady. With one added caveat, Brady has had bigger regular seasons and actually has all-time NFL records (Montana has playoff passing records. Tom has some also but not as dramatic as Montana’s).
It is a more appropriate debate to ask whether Manning is better than Drew Brees than Tom Brady.
Finally, what I always ask Peyton fans in this comparison is what would it take for Brady to be considered better? I always like to know if you are being objective. Would he have to win 1 or 2 more Super Bowls? Throw for 6,000 yards in a season? Go undefeated? I follow that up with why doesn’t Peyton have to do the same.
To be fair, I will tell you what Peyton has to do in my mind. Win more Super Bowls, pass Brady in passing rating, have a comparable regular season winning percentage. In other words be an equal of better regular season passer, impact his team in the regular season and win the big games more than Brady.
Headline
October 2, 2012 at 7:03 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
So you’re saying the 41-0 loss to the Jets was Peyton Mannings fault? Him alone? I kinda remember the Jets knocking off a 14-2 Patriots team at home recently. That goes along with your one game theory. One game dude! One game to knock off the 18-0 Patriots in the super bowl. One Game to knock off the 14-2 Patriots at home in the playoffs (2010). One game to knock off the 13-3 Patriots in the 2011 SB. Were those all Tom Brady’s fault?
And you saying there are 10 links supporting Brady for every one supporting Peyton Manning. Have you already forgot your “Bird not top five of all time comment”. I can start email you links again. We can see who can find more? You game?
And I’m not evading topics. I covered the playoffs in my article. Did you forget? My article is a response to yours. Andre’s comments are the same as yours.
J Simp
October 2, 2012 at 5:46 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
“Headline”, anyone can find a couple of links on the internet that would support Manning in this debate. Come on, man, please don’t insult peoples intelligence. For every one link you can find, there are ten that support Brady in this debate. Don’t do this……can you please address the huge playoff performance difference between the two QB’s, as well as why Peyton has led a team that has lost at home (and favored) in the playoffs in 4 different years? As well as a 41-0 loss at the Jets in another playoff game? Please explain…..I have been asking you for weeks……stop evading topics if you want to be taken seriously…and address the comments made by “Andre” too. They are all valid ones.
Headline
October 2, 2012 at 5:39 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Also, notice the Manning wins 5-0 on who will be remembered as the the better QB.
Headline
October 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Alright, you Brady fans are getting out of hand. All that I’ve said is that it’s not an obvious choice. But I’m no expert. So here is a link to a panel of five experts. They rank the QB’s in 15 different categories. Manning won 11-4. Now I know it’s 2 years old, but with Manning out last season, it probably hasn’t changed that much!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5819047
J Simp
October 2, 2012 at 4:37 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Couldn’t have said it better myself, “Andre”…..very good comment with MANY facts that covers it all. Arguing that Manning is better is completely silly based on ALL of the facts, not just what the author decided to put in this article…..nicely done, Andre…..
Andre
October 2, 2012 at 4:28 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I sort of think this is a silly argument, but let me explain why Brady is better. Brady has had a greater individual team impact, he has greater individual statistics, and he has far greater team results. If you are a better team player and a better individual player. A better regular season player and a better playoff player. How can you be anything but better?
Brady’s Qb rating is better than Manning’s (96.5 versus 94.9). Doesn’t that take away Manning’s greatest argument that he is a better pure passing QB? Doesn’t that also beg the question of what could Brady have done playing in a dome with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and a green light to throw every play?
Of the two, Brady had the clearest team impact. His team was 5-11 the year before he became the starter. 0-2 the year he actually became the starter and instantly won the Super Bowl when he became the starter. Manning’s team went 3-13 prior to him being drafted and went 3-13 with him as the starter. The greatness of Brady was even more emphasized because the Patriots had a quality QB they just didn’t have a great QB.
If you switch Brady with Manning do we think Brady would not have won a Super Bowl, or won less playoff games than he lost, or had a lower winning percentage if he played with:
Coach – Tony Dungy (Dungy has a higher lifetime regular season winning percentage than Bill Belicheck)
Wide Receiver – Marvin Harrison 6th all time leading receiver yards
Wide Receiver – Reggie Wayne 20th all time leading receiver yards
Running Back – Edgrin James 2 time league leading rusher, 4 times over 1,500 yards, and 7 times over 1,000 yards
Defensive end – Dwight Freeney
Brady currently has a substantial lead as far as best W-L record. He not only beats Manning but every other modern QB. Though Manning has a very good regular season winning percentage, Brady beats him by 100 basis points (.773 vs .675).
Brady is 16-6 in the playoffs. Tied for the most wins in playoff history and one of the best winning percentages (which mirrors his regular season winning percentage .727). Manning is below .500 despite having a 67% regular season winning percentage.
The argument used to be that Brady was just a product of a good defense, but last year he takes the virtual last place defense to the Super Bowl with a 13-3 record.
Brady has engineered 3 of the top 20 scoring offenses ( 2 top 10 which includes the #1 offense) in NFL history, whereas Manning has produced 1 top 20 offense (The difference between the two is despite Manning having all the offensive weapons listed above and while playing in a dome). By the way Brady’s offense is #1 again this year and currently on pace to have another top 10 all time finish. Don’t we generally attribute offensive production to QBs?
If we are going to emphasize Peyton’s quantitative yards and touchdowns then Farve, Marino, Moon, Fouts, Tarkenton, Bledsoe, and Collins were better than Montana.
The only semi strong argument for Manning is in comparing his hurt versus the year Brady was hurt. Manning’s team did fall apart, but we have to remember they were only 10-6 the year before (arguably 10-7 since they lost their playoff game) and then went 2-14. Brady’s team was 16-0 with Brady (18-1 with the playoffs) and 11-5 no playoffs without him. Not saying that it happened, but at some point there could have been incentive to not win versus to win for the Colts. Either way if I give that point and that is the only thing standing against the avalanche of data supporting Brady, I take that bet.
jim quillen
October 2, 2012 at 2:03 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
head to head matchups I believe Brady has beaten Manning more than Manning has beaten Brady. Manning should be better he s had a much better receiving corps most of his carrer but sadly withthe Broncos I think his besttimesare behind him. He may never be on a play off team again, shouldve gone to Miami much better supporting staff there .
Headline
October 2, 2012 at 1:51 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Simp… I agree with this guy after I’ve taken account of EVERYTHING… Flip a coin!
Richard Ogilby
October 2, 2012 at 10:08 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Give #1 John Unitas:-)
Brady or Manning, flip the coin, they are both great.
J Simp
October 2, 2012 at 9:58 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
“Headline”….just have to say again what a joke this article is. You leave out SOOOO much stuff, it’s just laughable. Hope one of these days you actually address the weak playoff record Manning has, the fact that he has had better weapons on offense for a much longer period of time throughout his career, etc…..how do you account for the fact that Manning and his Colts lost 4 times AT HOME (and favored) in the post-season in his time there? And in another year in the playoffs, he led a team that lost 41-0 to the Jets. Come on bro, don’t just point out Manning’s great REGULAR SEASON success, look at EVERYTHING……
James
October 2, 2012 at 9:51 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Patriots were 5-11 the year before the first Superbowl victory. Fun fact. Then Brady got the start and the Superbowl was won. If Manning wins the Superbowl this year, then you have a point.
onepercentapeacearmy
October 2, 2012 at 6:12 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
There is no comparison in QB support casts,Peyton has played with 3 to 5 pro bowl players his entire career;TB played with mediocre cast at best ( one year had comparable talent as Peytons usual cast and he went 19 and 1…50 touchdowns)
J Simp
September 14, 2012 at 9:18 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
To help you out on this topic even more….last night one of your favorite QB’s, Jay Cutler, threw 1 TD and 4 Int’s. That would give him a 0.25 TD-INT ratio…..pretty awful. Peyton Manning has just over a 2.0 ratio for his career, which is very good. But Brady is 2.6-1….best ever…..
J Simp
September 14, 2012 at 9:13 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headline….come on, man…..TD-INT ratio! Not INT %…..The # of TD’s thrown vs the # of Int’s thrown. You did all this research and didn’t even understand the correct stat. TD-INT ratio is a VERY key stat when evaluating a QB, at any level. Brady throws 2.6 TD’s for every Int, which is the best of all-time. So before you give me a list with guys like Campbell, Garrard, and O’Donnell, try to understand the correct stat first.
Headline
September 13, 2012 at 11:41 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I mean REALLY??? Jason Campbell is in the top ten!!!
Headline
September 13, 2012 at 11:37 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
TD-INT ratio is a season stat…
And what exactly does that stat mean? I mean Brady is .1% better than McNabb! Do you see any of the all time greats on that list other that Brady????
To me this stat means take it safe guy… Don’t air it out because the risk might be to great… I don’t trust my talent therefore, I’ll play it safe type of QB!
Really??? Niel O’Donnell??? And Kent Graham? If I can’t bring up Cassel, then you can’t bring this stat up anymore… Lame stat!!!
NFL Career Pass Interception % Leaders
Rank Player (age), + – HOFer, Bold – Active Int% Years Teams
1. Aaron Rodgers (28) 1.8% 2005-2012 gnb
2. Neil O’Donnell 2.1% 1991-2003 4TM
3. Tom Brady (34) 2.1% 2000-2012 nwe
4. Sam Bradford (24) 2.2% 2010-2012 ram
5. Donovan McNabb (35) 2.2% 1999-2011 3TM
6. Matt Ryan (26) 2.2% 2008-2012 atl
7. Jeff Garcia (41) 2.3% 1999-2011 6TM
8. Joe Flacco (26) 2.3% 2008-2012 rav
9. Mark Brunell (41) 2.3% 1994-2011 5TM
10. Jason Campbell (30)2.3% 2006-2012 3TM
11. David Garrard 2.4% 2002-2010 jax
12. Shaun Hill (31) 2.4% 2005-2012 3TM
13. Kent Graham 2.5% 1992-2001 4TM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm
Winning percentage has as much to do with the team as it does the QB!
J Simp
September 13, 2012 at 3:36 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
To “Headline”….You continue to make my points for me. Peyton Manning is probably the greatest REGULAR SEASON QB of all-time. His numbers during the regular season are astonishing, and some of his numbers are the best ever. From September-December, he is potentially the best we have ever seen. However…..and you know what is coming…..A much bigger determining factor for a QB’s legacy is what he does in the playoffs. Being that Manning is so great in the regular season, how does he have a 9-10 record in the playoffs? He has lost 4 times as a home favorite in Indy in the playoffs. Being that he is so great in your mind, why has he not gotten it done in the playoffs? Please address this for me. And your statement of 11 years of 4,000 or more yards for Manning compared to just 4 for Brady is a very short-sighted argument, and you are leaving out a ton of other stats. How about TD-INT ratio? Winning %? Don’t be the lame fan who just brings up the stats that support “his guy” and forget the other stats. Come on, Headline.
Headline
September 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Simp… Explain to me why Brady only has four 4000 plus yard passing seasons whereas Peyton has 11?
Headline
September 12, 2012 at 12:10 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
RE: Adam G – Brady is NOT the most notorious 2 minute QB ever !!! John Elway IS !!!
But for argument sake:
Most game winning drives career -
Dan Marino 51
Peyton Manning 47
John Elway 46
Brett Favre 45
Warren Moon 37
Tom Brady 35
Most 4th quarter comebacks -
Dan Marino 36
Peyton Manning 36
John Elway 35
In 10th all time at 25 is Brady
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/
You win the Super Bowl argument all day long! But if Super Bowls are all that count then its Montana, Bradshaw, Brady, Aikman…
Regular season Wins, Brady 125, Manning 142… Single season, Brady 5200 yards, 50 TDs, Manning 4 time MVP. Brady will NOT catch Manning in any of the major career stats like TDs, yards, or completions.
And one final stat I’d like to hear Brady fans explain…???
4000 plus yard passing seasons –
Brady 4
Manning 11
It’s not an OBVIOUS choice !!!
Adam G.
September 12, 2012 at 10:45 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
@Headline: Brady is the MOST notorious 2 minute drill QB ever. No team in their right mind gives Tom Brady the ball back with about 2 mins remaining in a game and a possibility of defeat with one possession. And how can you say Super Bowls don’t matter. If anything, any football fan/player/coach/owner, etc. knows that winning a Super Bowl title is THE most important achievement. It’s the whole purpose of even playing. What team do you know of goes into a season saying “eh, we’re just gonna try and get by this year. We don’t care about the BIG GAME.” Every team in the NFL starts out their season with hopes of winning a Super Bowl, and obviously only one team from each conference can make it, thus making it a HUGE feat when a team wins it. Brady has led basically no-name offenses to 3, count ‘em 3, Super Bowl victories. Five all together. Manning has won just 1, and with a team loaded with talent might I add. As far as regular season, how bout the all time wins/losses record where Brady has blown Peyton out of the water. Not to mention Manning started 2 years before Tom ever got into the league. Brady’s one-upped Manning all over the place (has had a perfect reg. season, 50 TD’s, passer rating, winning pct, etc.), need I go on…All the stats that actually matter and define what and who a quarterback is, Tom Brady absolutely has the upper hand. No question about it. The poll results seem to think so, too.
J Simp
July 28, 2012 at 6:58 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Because at times its a popularity contest, we all know this….the educated fan looks at the regular season success COMBINED with the post-season success, and the choice is a very simple one. It’s #12 in Foxboro. Anyone who says any different is not being logical.
KJ and R
July 28, 2012 at 2:01 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
And what is weird is that Brady is winning in the poll in the article. And Manning is ahead of Brady in the best QB of all time poll. Hmm
KJ and R
July 28, 2012 at 1:58 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
I just hope both teams are undefeated come week 5… This is fun!
J Simp
July 28, 2012 at 12:35 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Headline, I know you know football better than this….I thought I did anyway. In one breath, you want to talk about the one year that Brady didn’t play, how the Patriots went 11-5. But if someone else brings up one year (Brady’s one year of 50 TD’s), you dismiss that argument. You talk out of both sides of your mouth as well. Matt Cassel is not a “nobody”. he is a starting QB in the NFL. Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky are “nobody’s”, and have never started a game unless Peyton was out. If you want to hitch your wagon to Manning being a better regular season QB, you are CORRECT. That’s the problem with your argument. The playoffs and Super Bowls MATTER. A LOT. Wake up…..in your world, the post-season is not a big deal. Your way of thinking is severely flawed. The rings do matter, and that is what puts Brady on a totally different level than Peyton. 9-10 in the playoffs for Manning. Your name shouldn’t be “Headline”, it should be “Clueless”.
Headline
July 28, 2012 at 10:37 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
The point wasn’t about who they played or how many games were won by Matt Cassel. In 5 years no one will even remember Matt Cassel. He really is a nobody! The point was about what happened to the system with either Brady or Manning missing. The Patriots have a great system! 11-5. The colts totally sucked without Manning! Period!
And if were going to focus on the regular season, Brady has a LONG way to go to catch up! Manning is dominating in the regular season category. One season with a lot of touchdowns and another with a lot of yards only counts during those years. Furthermore, 5000 yard passing seasons a going to become the norm. No big deal! Listen, I know what Brady has accomplished statistically over the last 5 or 6 years (no Super Bowls) has been amazing. But if were going to talk about the last 5 years, Drew Brees has the 1st place ribbon.
The fact is that the west coast offence was better than Marino and Brady and Manning are pretty close to equal. Brady and the Patriots have the winning percentage and the playoffs. Manning dominates the regular season! We will have to wait and see what happens over the next four or five years to make a final judgement. Hopefully they both stay health so we can see it play out. Can’t wait!
J Simp
July 28, 2012 at 8:29 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Couldn’t agree more…..Finally an educated fan who has some numbers to back up his argument. Manning fans don’t like to point out the obvious stat differences between the two players, and when they do, its always regular season numbers…..The playoffs kinda matter a lot, people…..
The Dude
July 27, 2012 at 9:51 PM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
the missing year is the most obvious. in 2008 the patriots had the easiest schedule ever NFC west and AFC west Cardinals division winners at 9-7 and Chargers at 8-8. Cassel went 10-5 who by the way led the Chiefs to a division title in 2010. Peyton Manning in 2010 against the AFC west and NFC west went 10-6. Seattle won the division at 7-9 and the Chiefs led by Matt Cassel the (missing year) at 10-6. Sorry Curtis Painter is no Matt Cassel. That’s why Polian was fired. Colts fans used to use statistics as an excuse that why Manning was better than Brady. Problem is Brady has 3 super bowl wins 5 appearances, most TD’s in a season, 2nd most passing yards in a season, best winning % ever, etc. Dude is a winner and he puts up crazy numbers. This is the Montana Marino debate. Fact is Montana was better than Marino, and Brady is better than Manning. Both are HOFers, but manning isn’t in the same category as a Montana or a Brady.
J Simp
July 16, 2012 at 9:12 AM (UTC -6) Link to this comment
Where, or where do I begin?……any QB could win in the Patriots system? Ridiculous…..Al lot of your points make my points about Brady being better. Peyton has more 4th quarter comebacks because the Patriots have not been behind in as many games. Brady rarely allows his team to get behind, as they are usually ahead. The numbers you point out about Peyton having better stats is where he does have the edge, and when their careers are over, he will most definitely have more passing yards, TD’s, etc…..but this is regular season stuff, and with his 4 MVP’s, he is easily one of the greatest REGULAR SEASON QB’s ever. Unfortunately for your argument, the playoffs kinda matter….like, a lot…..Brady is 16-6 in the playoffs and Peyton is 9-10. 3 rings vs 1. If I were a hardcore Manning fan, I honestly would be kinda disappointed with his playoff resume, considering all of his regular season success. You failed to mention some key things when comparing the two as well, like winning % and TD-Int ratio. Your Top 7 list a good list which points out some things where Peyton will have the better numbers here and there, but when it’s all said and done, the playoffs and Super Bowl success that Brady has had pushes the edge in his favor…and in a big way…..Peyton is a great regular season QB, where Brady is a great regular season AND Playoff QB. Like I said in my article, it’s really not close either. Brady will go down as the better QB, if not the best of all time.